LittlestCthulhu, moving on from my barrage of comments--

(And don't get me wrong by the way, I still believe in Gametap as a company, I guess to put it straight Ijust don't want the company to be swallowed whole like other [b]ahem[/b] mergers.)

What kind of functionality is in the tray icon? Or are all commands (controlling downloads, etc) completely dependent on the website?

Pretty much all of your interfacing with the silent player will be done through the website in one way or another.

@BetaWolf, sorry dude, what Mac said, I can't go into that.

Wow! Thanks for the quick reply :) Glad to hear the silent player will be just that. And by the way, LittlestCthulhu I know that my initial post in the topic was quite large and not the most positive, but just wanted to say thanks for staying up with the forum and replying so promptly and answering as many questions as you can. I can see from the Metaboli forums this is not always the case (December outage/renewal problems comes to mind) so to have one as dedicated as you will definitely help ease the change-over.

I used to work in a tech-support kind of position, so seeing somebody actually care for their customers is something that I know is one that deserves more thanks.

> {quote:title=macnbc wrote:}{quote}
> GOG.com has proven largely successful, yet it doesn't have a stand-alone client. I know Steam has a client, but who else in the games-on-demand business does?
>
Stardock's Impulse

I'm happy to oblige! :D

> {quote:title=LittlestCthulhu wrote:}{quote}
> I know you guys love the client, lots of staff members do too, but there is tremendous demand for browser based, instant gratification gaming.

By Whom?

>Couple that with the need to get GameTap under one roof (website, community, games,accounts and support) plus the cost of developing 2 clients and the steep cost of Mac support and you start to see why the old client is going away.

I can understand this a bit more, so why not drop support for MAC like you've done then and we're back to where we were initially before MAC support came out?

>The client has been something of a barrier to entry for new users in the past. A fully web-based client makes it much simpler for people who aren't as familiar with GameTap to get in and see what we're about quickly.

You've got to be kidding me. The client is easy to use. Always has been. Are we talking about the kind of people that don't read the directions and wonder why their thumbs were chopped off after using a power saw or something? You start the client, log in, find the game you want and download it. How complicated is it? There are giant colorful buttons for crying out loud.

>These are decisions born from necessity; they are not arbitrary choices. To provide you this service we have to stay in business, and to stay in business we have to adapt. The new player allows us to do that. All that said, we're listening to the feedback you have about this change, and we are working our butts off to get the features you know and love back online.

And that puts me at ease a little more. I know I've been a little more vocal than I should, and I apologize.

> {quote:title=freyarh wrote:}{quote}
> > {quote:title=LittlestCthulhu wrote:}{quote}
> >Couple that with the need to get GameTap under one roof (website, community, games,accounts and support) plus the cost of developing 2 clients and the steep cost of Mac support and you start to see why the old client is going away.
>
> I can understand this a bit more, so why not drop support for MAC like you've done then and we're back to where we were initially before MAC support came out?

I think the "2 clients" referenced there are a response to the suggestion of having both the website and the client as separate options.

> You've got to be kidding me. The client is easy to use. Always has been. Are we talking about the kind of people that don't read the directions and wonder why their thumbs were chopped off after using a power saw or something? You start the client, log in, find the game you want and download it. How complicated is it? There are giant colorful buttons for crying out loud.

You'd be amazed. I installed GameTap on my Dad's computer and gave him a subaccount so he could play games on it, and he never used it. Said it was a hassle. This is a man who is a [b]software programmer[/b] with a [b]PhD[/b].

> {quote:title=macnbc wrote:}{quote}
> You'd be amazed. I installed GameTap on my Dad's computer and gave him a subaccount so he could play games on it, and he never used it. Said it was a hassle. This is a man who is a [b]software programmer[/b] with a [b]PhD[/b].

Meaning he was got into software programming when it was FORTRAN and tape backups and really old stuff that isn't relatable to today.

> {quote:title=macnbc wrote:}{quote}
> You'd be amazed. I installed GameTap on my Dad's computer and gave him a subaccount so he could play games on it, and he never used it. Said it was a hassle. This is a man who is a [b]software programmer[/b] with a [b]PhD[/b].

Maybe he doesn't like games? 10 year olds use gt just fine.

Best new comment was the ctrl+scrollwheel to 'fix' the [b]fixed resolution[/b] (omg...) of the new browser based gaming.

You may call this a move to cut costs, but you're also guilty of shoving a broken product onto your existing consumers. That isn't easily swallowed, and you're out of your minds if you didn't think you'd get called on it. Probably why you gave a two week notice, to limit the outcry or perhaps out of hope you could fix these major flaws in time.

Shame on you for giving us a broken product in place of a working one, with a vaporous promise to fix it later. gg no re.

> {quote:title=Cartigan wrote:}{quote}
> Meaning he was got into software programming when it was FORTRAN and tape backups and really old stuff that isn't relatable to today.

He did get into it back in the early 80s, but he still does actively code data mining software for his company.

> {quote:title=mmmyeahright wrote:}{quote}
>Maybe he doesn't like games? 10 year olds use gt just fine.

Not FPSs and such, but the man can school me (and most others) at any strategy game you put him with. It's not an issue on whether he [b]can[/b] use it, it's an issue on whether he [b]wants[/b] to, and he feels it's too much.

(OK, Off-topic, I know, resume discussion)

> {quote:title=LittlestCthulhu wrote:}{quote}
> Part of this update is GameTap needing to move forward and keep up with the industry. We are a different company now and must be profitable while continuing to offer a tremendous value to our customers. That's marketing spiel, but its true. I'm trying to be as transparent as possible here, there is no dark conspiracy at work.
>
> I know you guys love the client, lots of staff members do too, but there is tremendous demand for browser based, instant gratification gaming. Couple that with the need to get GameTap under one roof (website, community, games,accounts and support) plus the cost of developing 2 clients and the steep cost of Mac support and you start to see why the old client is going away. The client has been something of a barrier to entry for new users in the past. A fully web-based client makes it much simpler for people who aren't as familiar with GameTap to get in and see what we're about quickly. These are decisions born from necessity; they are not arbitrary choices. To provide you this service we have to stay in business, and to stay in business we have to adapt. The new player allows us to do that. All that said, we're listening to the feedback you have about this change, and we are working our butts off to get the features you know and love back online.

I wonder how much of the "tremendous demand for browser based, instant gratification gaming" is people who want free games and people who are actually willing to pay? Are people who tend to spend money on an impulse for "instant gratification" likely to stick with the service or move on to the next thing just as quickly?

I wonder also if by appealing to a different market you might lose much of your current market, and if it's worth the tradeoff?

Considering this change (which now seems less like an upgrade and more an appeal to a new audience) is so important it must be forced on us before it's even finished I wonder just how bad things are for gametap. If you need these new customers so bad you can't even hold off for a month or two to finish the client up that's not good news and if it's going to take more then a month or two to add all the features you are cutting that's even worse news.

It's a shame because I loved the old gametap, but I guess you have to do what you have to do. Despite my ranting I really do hope for the best with the new update - I think gametap is an incredible service and an amazing value (even if you are raising the yearly price it's still an INSANELY good deal). and I'd hate to see it fail. I just really think you are going the wrong way with this.

FWIW I don't see GOG.com as the same thing at all - no it does not have a player and is web based, but the games are also simply downloaded and DRM free so it doesn't need one. You are buying the games, not renting them - there is no need to use the service except to purchase new games - similar to how you don't need to visit a store unless you are purchasing something.

Mac, not to pick a fight but comparing Gametap to GOG or Steam is a bit silly. They're in the prime buissiness of selling games, not renting a service (which is what gametap is doing in it's basics.) Why are you so argumentative towards the fact that some people actually like the client and feel it's safer for their children? For the record my 5-year-old can use the client perfectly, but he doesn't know how to use a web browser (with good reason.) All the other mods and admins are actually discussing with us pros and cons, you're simply telling us why are ideas are bad ideas at every turn, what gives?

Again not trying to start a fight here, I'm simply curious.

> {quote:title=Zorlac666 wrote:}{quote}
> Mac, not to pick a fight but comparing Gametap to GOG or Steam is a bit silly. They're in the prime buissiness of selling games, not renting a service (which is what gametap is doing in it's basics.)

While it is true that they sell games and GameTap "rents" them, there is no direct competitor to GameTap that does precisely the same thing. GoG and Steam are the closest matches. They are services that deal in the legal download of games of various age. To use a common metaphor around here, while GameTap may be a "buffet" and the others may be "a la carte", they're both restaurants.

>Why are you so argumentative towards the fact that some people actually like the client and feel it's safer for their children? For the record my 5-year-old can use the client perfectly, but he doesn't know how to use a web browser (with good reason.) All the other mods and admins are actually discussing with us pros and cons, you're simply telling us why are ideas are bad ideas at every turn, what gives?

I don't believe that I'm being argumentative. I fully recognize that some people like the client. Heck, I like the client too (though I have an open mind toward the new browser interface.) I'm simply pointing out that not [b]everyone[/b] likes the client. Several people in the thread have asked questions along the lines of "Who's been asking for these changes?", "Why is GameTap doing this?", etc. etc. While I like the sound effects and the rings and the playlists, I have personal experience with people who don't like all of that, and wanted to bring an alternative perspective to the table.

As to the bit about whether or not its safer for children, maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I don't have children of my own so I am not in a position to judge. Regardless, we're going to the new version very shortly, and sticking with the old one won't be an option. Therefore I've been trying to present scenarios and alternatives that could work with the new version and can help address concerns.

Basically the way I see it is this: the changes are coming, and they're coming soon. One can look at it as a tragic loss, which I'm sure some will. As I said before, there's probably going to be some sort of attrition rate with every change. Mac users are losing support, which sucks, some features are going away temporarily (like arcade/console full-screen play), and some seem to be going away for good (like embedded playlists.) The other option is to look at this as a new opportunity. Between the forum changes, the website changes, the subscription plan changes, and the chance of more publishers coming on board, we're looking at almost a completely new GameTap. It is not going to be a perfect transition. But to use another poster's analogy, it is the foundation of something that could be much stronger and more cohesive as time goes on, given the chance.

I'm an optimist by nature, so I tend to favor the latter approach.

> {quote:title=Cartigan wrote:}{quote}
> > {quote:title=macnbc wrote:}{quote}
> > GOG.com has proven largely successful, yet it doesn't have a stand-alone client. I know Steam has a client, but who else in the games-on-demand business does?
> >
> Stardock's Impulse
Impulse's client is for downloading only. After that you can launch through the start menu and shortcuts.

Impulse's client is also a IE shell. Download it and right click on the navigation area. It is IE.

> {quote:title=MysticCrunk wrote:}{quote}
> Impulse's client is also a IE shell. Download it and right click on the navigation area. It is IE.

It isn't very good either. Its slow, hangs often, and just isn't enjoyable to use. Every time Microsoft patches IE it breaks. (Something I imagine Gametap will do once the web interface kicks in) I like Stardock and have bought several games from them but their Stardock centeral shell was so much better.It was fast, easy to use, updates just happened.


BTW, Gametap peoples, I logged onto my kids' gametap account, which is restricted, and the first ad that as servered was for the R rated Role Models. Which wouldn't be so bad if it didn't feature an automatic streaming trailer and a link to red band stuff that has an age check that is easily skipped. Really Gametap, with you forcing the web on my kids, is it too much to ask to at least filter the ads my kids are served? If this isn't going to be address, I will make sure ever parent web site with a game coverage knows how Gametap is changing to an adults only club.

> {quote:title=macnbc wrote:}{quote} It is not going to be a perfect transition. But to use another poster's analogy, it is the foundation of something that could be much stronger and more cohesive as time goes on, given the chance.
>
> I'm an optimist by nature, so I tend to favor the latter approach.

And it's not finished yet. You're ignoring that part in playing Company Man #1.

He's right. I get that it's going to happen anyway and that's the way it is, and I'm sure that I will grow to like it anyway. I get that and I understand where GT is coming from. What I don't get is why it's being pushed out now, while there is still some improvement? It's like playing Hide and Seek, "Ready or not, here I come."

The whole thing seems out of left field and rushed. Maybe its a do or die thing?

While I haven't been told this by staff (so don't treat this as official or gospel,) I'm gathering from a number of statements about migrations and transitions that GameTap is pushing a lot of their under-the-hood databases over to a new system, and the new system may work with the new web interface but not the old client.

It's probably somehow related to the Metaboli switchover, I gather.

Though if I'm off-base, please correct me staffers.

> {quote:title=mmmyeahright wrote:}{quote}
>And it's not finished yet. You're ignoring that part in playing Company Man #1.

You've gotten really good at use of out-of-context quotations mmmyeah, I believe I commented in the exact same post you quoted that it sucks that some things won't be ready at launch, and that it may be a bumpy transition.

I'll accept it eventually, but for now let me have my brooding time. ;)

I'm starting to get the feeling that the mods (not staff though) are fighting the urge to tell us what they're +really+ thinking. There's a lot of whiners here, and they're getting fed up.

I have read everything about what is too come all the new features nd such. so it is web based big whoop. my problem is that my kids love GT my youngest plays all the classic like digdug and such while my oldest loves the new games. but he wants to know and so do I when are we going to get some like from sierra and not the galaxy quest and police quest. I mean like outpost and outpost 2. other games like mass effect games that will really define GT as a truly power hub for games new and old. I love GT and my daughter who is 10 months old loves to watch her big brothers play. i hope this new launch will be great and yet i am still leary of loss of games for my kids.

What loss? Are we losing games or something? No games are being lost in the transition.

> {quote:title=BetaWolf wrote:}{quote}
> What loss? Are we losing games or something? No games are being lost in the transition.

I think he is refurring to having to take Gametap away since its no longer kid friendly. I'm going to break the news to my kids tonight.