i read the article how some people are getting banned but claimed they never used any pirated software. That xbox support wouldnt even talk to them they kept hanging up.

http://videogames.yahoo.com/events/plug ... ve/1372276

Good. I don't much care for software pirates. I bet the people who claim to have been targeted by accident actually were pirating games. Either that or they got a modded console from someone else. I have no sympathy for them.

Does anyone listen to Stepto (Stephen Tolouse) at Xbox? He's said quite clearly to be cautious buying second hand console, which is probably what this guy did. Some pirate dumped his banned colsole, and he got it. I'm not saying MS support was in the right on this one (the british support must suxxors) but it's a case of Buyer beware.
Fear of this actually prevented me from manually updating my hard drive actually.

a few people are going to get the raw end of the deal but hopefully this is just one step for them to start cracking down on this issue

I am all for actions like this against pirates. Unfortunately there will always be collateral damage.

While it is good to get rid of pirates, it also has some "extra damage" to people who bought one of those 360s, or even someone who really did accidently download something.

They may be few, but they are most likely out there.

Can't please everyone though, I suppose.

Brodoin wrote: While it is good to get rid of pirates, it also has some "extra damage" to people who bought one of those 360s, or even someone who really did accidently download something. They may be few, but they are most likely out there. Can't please everyone though, I suppose.

I'll concede the argument about thsoe who bought one of the used Xbox360s, but given the ToS for Xbox live every used purchase really should be "Buyer Beware" (alas many used purchasers may not know this.) Hopefully anyone with a used (and now live less, but still working) console can take it up with their seller (if it's EB games or Gamestop, they may actually have recourse to get their money back.)

HOWEVER, I will not take this argument for "accidently" downloading something. The Closed Garden nature of the xbox makes it niegh impossible to "accidently" download anything you don't want on there. Heck, you can't even move .wmv files from a thumbdrive to an xbox. (Yes, i know you can watch them off the thumbstick, that's not the point.) You're not "accidently" going to get a copy of MW2, that just happens to be cheap, pirated and workable.

My roommate has pirated games. What if one of these were accidentally to end up in my 360?!

(Not that he'd use my 360 to play his games, or I'd want to play pirated copies of Madden and NCAA, or that this post is really anything other than just a joke)

Arrrr, keel-haul 'em all, says I, and let Davey Jones sort the scurvy bastards out!

buster42 wrote: My roommate has pirated games. What if one of these were accidentally to end up in my 360?! (Not that he'd use my 360 to play his games, or I'd want to play pirated copies of Madden and NCAA, or that this post is really anything other than just a joke)

Am I misunderstanding something. I thought mods were required to play pirated games. So if one accidently ended up in your xbox360, in theory it wouldn't play. Of course there's a greater philosophical argument here over "accident" vs. "should have taken better care of protecting your stuff"

The real question is did your Roommate get banned?

tsrblke2 wrote: Brodoin wrote: While it is good to get rid of pirates, it also has some "extra damage" to people who bought one of those 360s, or even someone who really did accidently download something. They may be few, but they are most likely out there. Can't please everyone though, I suppose. I'll concede the argument about thsoe who bought one of the used Xbox360s, but given the ToS for Xbox live every used purchase really should be "Buyer Beware" (alas many used purchasers may not know this.) Hopefully anyone with a used (and now live less, but still working) console can take it up with their seller (if it's EB games or Gamestop, they may actually have recourse to get their money back.) HOWEVER, I will not take this argument for "accidently" downloading something. The Closed Garden nature of the xbox makes it niegh impossible to "accidently" download anything you don't want on there. Heck, you can't even move .wmv files from a thumbdrive to an xbox. (Yes, i know you can watch them off the thumbstick, that's not the point.) You're not "accidently" going to get a copy of MW2, that just happens to be cheap, pirated and workable.

I know, I meant more along the lines of someone's younger sibling doesn't know what he/she is doing and accidently downloads something that shouldn't be downloaded.

It's not impossible, after all.

As for people who buy used 360's at GameStop or EB, I think they should have some kind of "return if banned" thing going on, so people get their money back. Or they should at least check any the store buys.

I feel bad for any people who buy banned 360's on eBay.

tsrblke2 wrote: buster42 wrote: My roommate has pirated games. What if one of these were accidentally to end up in my 360?! (Not that he'd use my 360 to play his games, or I'd want to play pirated copies of Madden and NCAA, or that this post is really anything other than just a joke) Am I misunderstanding something. I thought mods were required to play pirated games. So if one accidently ended up in your xbox360, in theory it wouldn't play. Of course there's a greater philosophical argument here over "accident" vs. "should have taken better care of protecting your stuff" The real question is did your Roommate get banned?

I dunno how to pirate games.

How would I better protect my stuff, anyways? Unless I got a lockbox and always put my 360 away in it, but at that point we're getting ridiculous.

I don't think he even plays online.

i wouldnt want to pirate games you get them off websites that have all kinds of viruses then what you get banned from xbox live and your computer gets eaten alive

Well Buster, perhaps I was a bit too harsh. But the point being, if people are going to blame MS (and I'm not saying you are) because their roomates or the like are abusing their toys, then MS is just never going to be able to win.

tsrblke2 wrote: Well Buster, perhaps I was a bit too harsh. But the point being, if people are going to blame MS (and I'm not saying you are) because their roomates or the like are abusing their toys, then MS is just never going to be able to win.

I'm not saying he did or anybody's used my 360 for pirated games, hence the "not that this post is anything more than a joke", or whatever I said.

wouldnt you just be able to get on another xbox on another gamertag and do the same thing tho?

alabama2561990 wrote: wouldnt you just be able to get on another xbox on another gamertag and do the same thing tho?

You would have to buy another Xbox and mod it again. Its a hassle and its expensive.

[/quote]You would have to buy another Xbox and mod it again. Its a hassle and its expensive.[/quote]

true but they could just not mod it i mean the only punishment they'd get is there pirate account would be banned but its not like you could ban one person permanently

An Xbox can't be accidentally modded, it requires you take the machine apart to remove the DVD drive then flash the firmware, reinstall the drive then download and burn the games.

What I believe the complaints are about are people who've unknowingly purchased a used Xbox 360 that was modded by the previous owner. If that is the case you should return the machine to the place of purchase, the retailer is in violation of the law as much as the modder was and should be willing to make amends. Should... we all know how friendly your average GameStop/EB is.

LittlestCthulhu wrote: ...remove the DVD drive then flash the firmware...

... and that's how they caught those people. Just a simple firmware check.

I'm not sure it was that simple. I was listening to an interview the other day and Stepto said that no one had deteremined how MS figures this out yet.
Consider the Xbox360. It's have a few revisions already. So they'd have to already have the code to poll the firmware, send back a response and determine from this if it has a different firmware. But different from what? New DVD drives have undoubtly been used, put into repaired consoles, etc.

Preface: This is all speculation on my part. And when it comes to companies like Microsoft, Apple, and whatnot I like to go a bit "conspiracy theorist" with what they are capable of. Take it with five or six grains of salt.

tsrblke2 wrote: I'm not sure it was that simple. I was listening to an interview the other day and Stepto said that no one had deteremined how MS figures this out yet.

I'm by no means an expert at this but the situation doesn't seem so far fetched to me.

Quote: Consider the Xbox360. It's have a few revisions already. So they'd have to already have the code to poll the firmware, send back a response and determine from this if it has a different firmware.

Couldn't they just hide it in an XBL update and even make part of the update process?

Quote: But different from what? New DVD drives have undoubtly been used, put into repaired consoles, etc.

Well, they don't want anyone but themselves messing with the console so from their point of view having a third party repair it is "at your own risk." Because of this they can limit themselves specifically to the drives they themselves installed. I'm sure someone knows what model drive was put into each iteration of the console (and in turn its firmware). If it comes back as something not on that list then they can assume it's been illegally modded and ban it.

Arguably, but once run 1 of the 360 stopped, they'd only have drives from Run 2's vendor. So if a Run 1 Xbox comes back in for repairs on the drive, you'd have to put a run 2 drive in it. How would you successfully differentiate this from a modded xbox?
Furthermore, this ban came without an update to Xbox, now I suppose they could have just been checking data over until now.
Personally I think it's more than likely that they just look for out of place gameplay statistics (Hmm, this person is playing MW2 prior to launch) then they compare it to any known locations that accidently broke street date (thanks to sales metrics they have all of this.) And thusly, modder is identified. (Games with regional differences could be seen in the same way too, by looking for an out of region achievement or the like.)

tsrblke2 wrote: Arguably, but once run 1 of the 360 stopped, they'd only have drives from Run 2's vendor. So if a Run 1 Xbox comes back in for repairs on the drive, you'd have to put a run 2 drive in it. How would you successfully differentiate this from a modded xbox?

Fairly simple solution in my mind (not necessarily reality). They know the firmware on those drives as well (most likely). They know what firmware that they've been putting in them (someone has to anyway) so theoretically (I really don't know what it takes to mod your xbox, all I've ever done is replace the fan) the only firmware that would run pirated stuff would be something they did not distribute and that's all they would have to look for.

Quote: Furthermore, this ban came without an update to Xbox, now I suppose they could have just been checking data over until now. Personally I think it's more than likely that they just look for out of place gameplay statistics (Hmm, this person is playing MW2 prior to launch) then they compare it to any known locations that accidently broke street date (thanks to sales metrics they have all of this.) And thusly, modder is identified. (Games with regional differences could be seen in the same way too, by looking for an out of region achievement or the like.)

There is merit to this argument as well.

I think it is ironic that a person would pay the XBOX Live fee but use pirated games. I could understand more (just more) if they played pirated games offline. Paying the fee though and playing those pirated games seems to me more of issue of, "I don't want to pay" rather than, "I don't have the money to pay."

I myself am a gamefly member but refuse to pay for gold just to play multiplayer. I think it should be included just like all other consoles and on the PC.