Quite a few games recommend 2-3gb's of system memory even today. Don't forget on a 32 bit system video memory decreases your available system memory so you're right at the 'edge' of recommended specs on a 32bit box. If you multitask while gaming you're going to get decreased performance since you'd be cutting into available memory. I often split screen video, play music, and record/edit TV while gaming so I do need the extra memory. I use software that auto removes commercials for me and that takes quite a lot of processing power and memory. I question whether 4gb's is even enough sometimes. My gaming PC doubles as my media center/dvr/etc. I rarely watch TV directly from the cable line.

If anyone is interested I use DVRMStoolbox (free) to remove commercials automatically from HD and Analog tv recordings, which isn't possible with Tivo and is highly addictive. Media center is a 'pain' when it comes to QAM HD broadcasts (free HD of broadcast stations over regular cable). My over the air reception is horrible here, so if it wasn't for geting HD over the cable line I'd be up a creek. Most people are unaware that cable companies rebroadcast local over the air signals that are in HD over the basic cable lines. Media Center doesn't handle QAM signals (over the cable) natively, although it does handle antennae based OTA (over the air) ATSC signals. The only device I could find to manage that is called HDhomerun which allows you to record two shows at a time for around $150 (reasonable since two good TV tuners would cost about that). It takes the QAM signal and translates it into an ATSC signal so Media Center simply believes you're recording from an antennae. I use a cool plugin for Media Center called vmcNetFlix which allows me to browse netflix on demand within media center using a remote. Remotes for a PC start around $20. I also have a USB TV tuner for analog stations and use a four way cable splitter so I have three cables going to my PC and one to the TV. It's fun with company because I can just pick up my remote and voila, no need for a keyboard or mouse, and there are ways to hide the PC away.

I also use music editing software through a Line6 UX2 device which I feed my Mic and Guitar through. Not too intensive but again for multitasking the extra memory comes in handy if company is playing a PC game or watching TV or movie through the PC and I want to play guitar. It's also an effects processor and I run everything through my PC and back out to an amp.

Personally I think everyone who has Vista or Media Center should turn their computers into a DVR. It's relatively inexpensive, there are no monthly fees, and it's upgradeable. Most people could do it for about $50 for a cheap TV tuner and remote. I had to spring for the HDHomeRun because my OTA reception is poor. I like TiVo, but the cost is extreme considering PCs do more for free once you have the hardware.

As to my old laptop, it's a piece of junk now. The keyboard doesn't work and the battery has been shot so I have to keep an external keyboard as well as having it plugged in to work. I just wanted to see if it was possible to get Vista to work on it because I've done custom versions of XP that were lightning fast, better than Windows98se for old machines. I didn't bother gaming on it, currently it's running a Ubuntu install (after the Vista free period expired). It was from switching over to Linux that my comment about finding laptop drivers for none supported OS versions came from. I've gotten XP down to only requiring 40mb's of memory footprint, which always made me wonder why cellphones, PDAs, or even the Xbox360 couldn't simply run a modified XP install. It's not difficult to do, free software nLite and vLite makes customizing Window installation disks a breeze (although took me a few disk burns to get Vista right and I have issues getting XP media center working correctly). Even with 128megs of ram XP ran great, I won't claim the same with Vista but every time I tried with less than 256megs of ram I got hive load failures.

I would totally spring for a motherboard that supported 64gigs of ram if I knew how to force applications only to use ram, or some way to treat a chunk of memory as if it was a harddrive. That would be beyond nice to have a game or intensive application totally in system memory without any hard drive. It would be faster than even a solid state drive and probably not that much more money since those things are a mint.

Also disappointed in no 64 bit compatibility almost half their games are under the window or 8 bit category. well looks like ill have a year to wait for them to upgrade to 64 bit...

The "8-bit" games...I think most of those are technically a PC game. The Konami collection that came out a few years back, so that's why it doesn't work.

> {quote:title=Wolfpup3 wrote:}{quote}
> The "8-bit" games...I think most of those are technically a PC game. The Konami collection that came out a few years back, so that's why it doesn't work.

Bingo. All of them are technically a PC game.

You can play many of the 8-bit games free on Console Classix, paid version gets you access to 'relatively' newer consoles. It works on 64bit Vista no problem. Neat service actually. The ROMs (cartridges) are dumped in real time into the Console Classix emulator. So if they own 500 cartridges, 500 people can play it at a time. Same premise as renting physical copies at a video store. Since the games are older they take barely anything to download over the net. Their emulators are good and it is legitimate. There should be a link to download from CNET. No credit information necessary for the free version, otherwise last I checked it's $5 a month (paid has Genesis, Super Nintendo, TurboGraffix, etc).

That's seriously legal? It sounds so fishy...but also really cool!

Dang, I'd be scared to give them my credit card number....kind of scared even to use it at all...although it is on Cnet's download page, so that makes it less scary.

It may be borderline but they own enough physical copies of the games to cover people using it, so I don't see what the problem would be. Only as many people can play at a single time as there are original copies of the games. I don't know exactly how it works but I've used it a few times (the free version). I originally got it from CNET and have never had any problems, this was like a year or two ago. Maybe it's quasi legal but seems to work. It's no different really than if you have a video store with 500 copies of Super Mario Brothers and rented those 500 copies out. Nintendo, sega, and all may be able to raise a fuss but doesn't seem worth it. Typically when you purchase media it's the media you're buying and not the medium. I.E. if you buy a CD, you're personally allowed to change it into a MP3 or a tape, record, whatever you want. They also don't do per rental agreements so you're accessing a library of games (similar to gametap) rather than on a case by case basis- so it would probably be difficult to claim they're 'renting' backups for profit. If you made a backup of a CD, locked the original in a case, and loaned the backup to a friend would you be breaking any laws? With software typically you can install it as many times as you like but you may only have one copy running at a time. You could install Windows 20 times on your PC if you wanted so long as you only had one version running at a time (the distinction being using virtualization you could run all 20 simultaneously and Microsoft frowns on that).
I dig the company even if it is quasi-legal, I think they have every right to do that personally especially since you're basically paying to access their game library and not per game. It would be like, paying $5 to go into an arcade and having unlimited gaming sessions so long as the lines aren't too long, not paying per machine. The only difference is it is done 'virtually' rather than 'physically'. Laws don't seem very clear on the distinction yet. Like in secondlife people broadcast TV and movies in their virtual homes. How many people viewing at the same time makes it a public performance? It shouldn't be considered public merely by virtue of being online. Otherwise if you pointed your webcam at the TV while video conferencing you'd be breaking the law. Devices like SlingBox that allow you to remotely access your PC, TV, TiVo, DVRs, Bluray, DVD, etc anywhere in the world would suddenly constitute a public performance.
As long as they keep good track of how many users are playing a given game at a time, and show the number of physical copies to match it, I personally think there's nothing at all wrong with it. Of course the music industry is much more of a #$#@ and they'd push the matter more if someone tried to do it with CDs or the MPAA with movies. I think the DMCA was a bad idea as it is written. We're far too pro industry in this country rather than pro consumer. The other day for example, I was looking into internet ready cell phones to use with skype. Totally legitimate in most of Europe. You don't need a voice plan at all, just a data plan. Skype gives you unlimited calling in US/Canada for about $20 for 3 months. Then it's like 2-3 bucks a month for a physical phone number. No need to use the cell phone service at all. Companies in the U.S. put exclusions in their contracts to the right to terminate users who are doing VOIP, even if they're not going over the (well hidden) bandwidth caps usually 3-4Gb per month even though they call their service "unlimited". They have a line that says they have the right to cancel a users access if they are found to be 'abusing' the service- and they believe 3-4Gbs constitues abuse. However I added it up and I'd have to use Skype nonstop for 30 days to reach 8gb (unless my math is wrong) because they avg 3-16kb/sec only for bandwidth use which is in all liklihood less than what bandwidth a typical cell phone call takes. The FTC is also looking into why the four major cell phone companies all raised their text messaging rates at about the same time last year- even though the cost for text messaging on their end is down. Well yeah, it's b.s. some of what technological companies get away with in the U.S. while screwing over the customers. So I hope Console Classix doesn't have a problem, they're not very well known, and I personally see no problem with it. But then again I see no problem letting someone remotely watch a movie I own so long as it's only one broadcast per copy. If you wanted to log into dislexic.virtualhouse.com and play my copy of the Matrix and you only have a handful of people over, I don't see how that is any different than five or less or so people physically over at my real house sitting down to watch the movie. Especially given that I can already watch it on any player or TV set in the house I want.

This thread is not a discussion site for Console Classix, and as we've said in other forums. It's quasi-legality is enough that it's off limits here. Sorry.

I haven't heard it mentioned in other forums. I also retract what I said about it being quasi-legal since only one company (nintendo) has sent them a cease and desist letter and their response back in 2001 must have been enough. Their response is here http://www.consoleclassix.com/letter_response.php along with the legal explanation of how Section 117 of US copyright law provides an exception for data contained in ROM semiconducter chips as well as references to other legal cases.

Gametap is a better deal in general. CC has been around since 2000 so clearly people prefer Gametap. The difference is 64 bit support. For all intents and purposes it is legal for cartridge based games.

I'm not sure what you mean by "relatively" newer consoles, but 64-bit will work on GameTap for anything other than PC. Upgrading to Gold is still a ripoff for 64-bit users, seeing as how the ratio of PC games is getting closer and closer to 1:1. That's paying the cash for only about 52% of the catalog. It looks like GameTap is compensating for this by making more and more 2D games in the Free Online Games section.

> {quote:title=dislexic wrote:}{quote}
> Gametap is a better deal in general. CC has been around since 2000 so clearly people prefer Gametap. The difference is 64 bit support. For all intents and purposes it is legal for cartridge based games.

This thread is here for people to suggest and discuss 64-bit support for +GameTap+. Not to discuss CC or any other site. Please remain on topic.

uh, i got a stupid question: is there a way to "change" my 64-bit vista into 32? or is there an emulator that i can download that is 32 bit? i missed out on grimm, but i want to play christmas carol!

Dang, I want to play those Grimm games too!

Assuming you bought a computer with 64-bit Vista, you'd have to just go and buy a 32-bit version for $100 and reinstall-try to find drivers, etc.

There are virtual machine programs, but I don't know that any would work for this. Virtual PC is free, but has too limited video support. Not sure if any of VMWare's pay products might work or not-and you'd still need the OS itself.

> {quote:title=tsrblke2 wrote:}{quote}
> This thread is not a discussion site for Console Classix, and as we've said in other forums. It's quasi-legality is enough that it's off limits here. Sorry.

Nor is Skype, or is this about squashing competitor discussion?

As for vista, just get 32bit xp if you're going to switch.

thank you, i'll just download a VM, i'm too cheap to spend $100 on a 32 bit vista. (not after i spent 3 grand on my current machine.)

Gametap will install but not run within a virtual machine. It won't load due to the generic video drivers used in virtualization. I've tried it several times.

If you have a copy of 64bit vista you can legally get a copy of 32bit Vista and install it. You don't have to purchase it over again. The product key located on your computer will work with either version of Vista. 64bit and 32 bit are not considered different operating systems. The only restriction is that you can only run one version legally at a time. Dual booting is allowed, you can install Windows 100 times on one machine if you like so long as only one copy is live at a time. It is not legal however to install windows AND run that same copy inside a virtual machine. Not that I personally care but companies can virtualize entire networks within a single PC.

> {quote:title=dislexic wrote:}{quote}
> It is not legal however to install windows AND run that same copy inside a virtual machine. Not that I personally care but companies can virtualize entire networks within a single PC.

Actually with Vista Business and Ultimate you can. I'm pasted a section of Windows EULA for Vista below.

For Vista Business and Ultimate: "You may use the software installed on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system on the licensed device. If you do so, you may not play or access content or use applications protected by any Microsoft digital, information or enterprise rights management technology or other Microsoft rights management services or use BitLocker. We advise against playing or accessing content or using applications protected by other digital, information or enterprise rights management technology or other rights management services or using full volume disk drive encryption."

> {quote:title=eagleflies14 wrote:}{quote}
> thank you, i'll just download a VM, i'm too cheap to spend $100 on a 32 bit vista. (not after i spent 3 grand on my current machine.)

Err....my point is that's NOT going to work.

> {quote:title=dislexic wrote:}{quote}
> Gametap will install but not run within a virtual machine. It won't load due to the generic video drivers used in virtualization. I've tried it several times.
>
> If you have a copy of 64bit vista you can legally get a copy of 32bit Vista and install it. You don't have to purchase it over again. The product key located on your computer will work with either version of Vista. 64bit and 32 bit are not considered different operating systems. The only restriction is that you can only run one version legally at a time. Dual booting is allowed, you can install Windows 100 times on one machine if you like so long as only one copy is live at a time. It is not legal however to install windows AND run that same copy inside a virtual machine. Not that I personally care but companies can virtualize entire networks within a single PC.

Even if that's the case, you'd still need a copy of Vista (and drivers, etc.).

Ty Sscorpio, I wasn't aware of that. I'd assume they only mean one copy at a time although the EULA doesn't seem like it limits that. I had read virtualization was a problem for Microsoft when people were basically running entire networks, web servers, email servers, etc in a virtualized environment. I just use Home Premium, Ultimate didn't seem to offer much for the added cost when I was putting my PC together.

Wolf I am against the very notion that anyone should feel the need to dual boot or downgrade their OS just to run gametap. I was merely pointing out people can legally install a 32bit version of the OS they have installed if they so desired. I did that for awhile. I used to have several devices and software programs that didn't have 64bit support. Now that it's only a single program I don't see it as worth it. Dual booting means people can still have the performance increase of their 64bit OS while still being able to use gametap- but rebooting to switch back and forth is a pain, especially if you have background tasks going on with one of the boots. Vista allows 'some' drive repartitioning on the fly, so if people are careful they can get around needing to do a drive format to get another boot. If it's not showing much available space for the new partition, you can try to delete some files and do a disk defragment but it isn't much of an increase. You only need enough space for the OS though since you can run gametap off of the main partition, just install it as if it was going on another hard drive.

Wolf, what's this fear of drivers? You've been going on and on about it, is there some bizarre piece of hardware Windows won't recognize? Are you unable to find some driver? Really folks, installing xp or dual booting isn't that hard. It's a perfectly valid solution. I find that when people complain and you give them a solution, that's the point they aren't interested anymore. Your agenda is something else, because if it was really about playing games on here, you've been instructed how to do that.

It's not 'that hard' but it is beyond the 'comfort level' of many. Downgrading to XP requires purchasing another OS. Dual booting requires either reformatting the harddrive or using a partitioning tool. XP doesn't include one. Third party tools like partition manager can fail and require a complete drive format. So it's not without risk beyond what I would expect an everyday computer user to want to deal with.
Finding drivers isn't difficult but I'm fairly confident that the vast majority of computer owners would have no idea where to look- even if it is as simple as logging into their product support page. Most people don't update their software, most people don't update their drivers, most people are running the same software and driver packages as came with their computer.
I'm sure most people posting in this thread are above the curve when it comes to basic computer skills- but Mmmm most people are computer ignorant. It's easy to forget that. I often suck at tech support unless I have a computer infront of me because I don't think about how to do something- I just do it. The few times I've written instructions for people on how to do even the most basic tasks I'm like wtf this is like 20+ steps long. Start writing a list of instructions of what a complete computer novice would have to do to dual boot on a prepartitioned HDD. It sounds easy to say because we already know what we're doing. You must personally know someone who doesn't have any idea when it comes to the operation of their computer beyond internet explorer, email, and microsoft office- an elder family member perhaps. Imagine telling them what to do. It's not that easy if you're not comfortable with computers.

Ok, so the latest argument for 64bit is because people are completely clueless and/or unwilling to learn about computers. I don't feel bad for these types. It's not a good reason to devote resources to a small minority of hapless spenders at the expense of the majority. They've been given the information; if they don't want to use it, I can't help that.

That is just ridiculous. How many times do I have to say this? 64-bit is now the standard, if anything. Some systems already do not have 32-bit drivers available (and XP is even worse), and that's going to get worse and worse over the coming year or two.

Yes, SOME systems if you go out and buy a copy of XP or 32-bit Vista you can get working 100%...but not all, and all of that is beyond the capability of many, if not most people.

You seem to be arguing that Gametap should only be marketing towards computer savy users who are willing to change their OS, quite possibly solely for a single service.

> {quote:title=Wolfpup3 wrote:}{quote}
> 64-bit is now the standard, if anything.

Steam survey says otherwise.

> Yes, SOME systems if you go out and buy a copy of XP or 32-bit Vista you can get working 100%...but not all, and all of that is beyond the capability of many, if not most people.

Find me one single example of 32bit vista not working on a 64bit shelf system. You have refused thus far to back this up despite multiple requests. Because there aren't any!

> You seem to be arguing that Gametap should only be marketing towards computer savy users who are willing to change their OS, quite possibly solely for a single service.

No, I'm arguing gt shouldn't waste money meant for new games on a minority of folks insistent on refusing to learn anything nor read directions on how to participate.